Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  24

  Impossible conversation: Jesus and Nicodemus: YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am a member on new testament scholar bart ehrman's blog, and the professor is currently outlining a new book he is writing about false memory and the life of jesus.. an interesting post occurred today in which he gives an example of a very famous scripture,.

  example of a false memory of jesus teaching i turn to a famous passage in the gospel of john, jesus dialogue with nicodemus (john 3:1-15).

  nicodemus is said to be a jewish leader who comes up to jesus and affirms that jesus must come from god because of the great things that he said to have done.

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  Half banana

  The very fact that the Greek pun of “born from above” and simultaneously “born again” is included in the Received Text indicates the source material being Greek and not Aramaic which as said indicates it could not be not verbatim or an historically truthful conversation.

  It also demonstrates the very good chance of early Christian writings being altered at will to conform to higher literary taste and for greater religious impact. Hand written text was ever susceptible to corrupt transmission. Compound this with the impossibility of the words being actually remembered by anyone (let alone false memories) shows that like most of the so called sacred scriptures, they are essentially a literary work, mainly fiction, drawing on older folk tales written by educated scribes in the employ of religious leaders or by those cult leaders themselves.

  Thank you for your input Terry.
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  146

  Why I remain one of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Brother Jeramy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.

  i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.

  some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).

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  Half banana

  Bro J, I understand your accommodation of conflicts by existing under the Watchtower roof but agreeing to disagree with their authoritarian culture and errors. This tension, as you put it, must nevertheless make your life difficult yet for the moment you are prepared to carry this burden.

  To an outsider, there is another, what shall I say... incongruity... that you identify with the Watchtower “family” but not what we might call the ‘paternity’ of that family. Again for the moment you are reconciled to this oddity.

  As we grow mentally which happens all the way through our lives, as time goes on we are able to see things more clearly, as we mature and have more experience of being alive, we are exposed to more information, more stimuli and more ideas. Unless that is, one is stuck inside a cult which deliberately curbs the information its followers receive and demands a narrow conservative view of life to be seen only through the viewfinder of Watchtower dogma. The family you refer to are in this latter camp, whether they support the HQ or just enjoy the social JW company with its requirements of going through the motions.

  I understand your desire for good but the basis for your religion is nevertheless faulty Watchtower fundamentalism.

  My thought may sound crude but since most of us have been there including me; we were infantilised by this cult and to remain there is to remain stunted in our natural growth. To be a mature human is to experience the pleasure and satisfaction of self determination and to be beholden to none other than ourselves and our closest loved ones. The Watchtower Society deprives all its flock of this birthright.
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  35

  Kingdom Hall Money Grab Was for Child Abuse – It’s Completely Clear

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  if youve followed the news lately there are more and more child abuse cases popping up.

  one lawyer said he has over 28 cases in the pipeline that are going to be coming out soon.

  on december 1 st a new one just popped up.

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  Half banana

  The Watchtower is a scam by any name yet poses as an innocent Bible based, end-of-the-world-preaching and Holy Roller religion.

  They are acutely aware of financial trouble looming ahead... and financial trouble is the only one which counts. No money equals no prestige for the leadership.

  The demeaning and desperate begging for funds and heartless money grabbing is without precedent and gives ample evidence that they are well and truly rattled. Big J is not helping them!

  There has always been a Freudian streak in their declarations whereby they have shifted their financial concerns into the religious frame, as you mentioned Stuckinarut, the “unusual demands” etc must be met. Having then set the idea up, we can imagine this to increase as they get bemired with more problems, paedophilia settlements and taxation et al. They clearly have seen the writing on the wall or more specifically; the alarming accountant’s annual reports to their bank. So the financial anxieties of the WTBTS are translated into 'satanic persecution'. This is presented to the dumb faithful as fulfilment of prophecy (which they never once have got right). And the sheep will bleat but still follow...

  Building on your thought Username, the cynic in me thinks that the GB, (who see themselves as the only “true” anointed!) will bugger off with the remaining cash before the total collapse of the organisation, indeed possibly to South America. Is this what they cryptically mean by the rapture?
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  38

  Types and anti types

  by Deltawave in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  according the watchtower study of may 10th, it has been made clear no prophetic meaning should be given to a a scripture or passage unless the bible itself gives clear interpretation of it.

  therefore daniel 7 especially gives it's fulfillment to nebuchadnezzar only.

  no future kingdom or 2520year wait til 1914. no gentile times or "this generation".

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  Half banana

  I find it heartening to hear the WTBTS in their round-about way admitting to having been wrong. Frankly what could they say? They have never got anything right in all one hundred and thirty six years of their Adventist existence. They can’t even apologise unconditionally.

  Type and anti type is almost too intellectual for the desired breed of obedient zombie which the org now demands. In Russell’s day people understood biblical imagery as being prophetic. Back then for many, the Bible was the bread and butter of daily life, today it is mainly ignored.

  Nevertheless the aim of the org is to continue to rake in the family inheritances and build their property portfolio to appear financially viable. After all there is no glory for the governing body members to be leading a bankrupt cult. So the first principle of the JWorg is money first and doctrine second.

  I genuinely think that ex-JW (apostate) argument is filtering in to the governance of the WTBTS. They hear the criticisms from the disgruntled flock and the departees. Type and anti-type has had its day. They are equating simplicity with “true worship”. They like the sound of this, it is a new selling point in cult theology but by overturning their historical doctrines they ignore that they have nothing which they can point to which could show the leadership as being appointed specially by God. Why listen to them, they are just another crazy doomsday cult?
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  14

  Missing the point?! Is this what Jesus had in mind??

  by Deltawave in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  is this what jesus had in mind?

  to be a spiritual person you must:.

  underline your books.

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  Half banana

  Deltawave, your assumptions about Jesus and spirituality need reining in.

  When you quote somebody or more remotely still imagine their mind, it would be well to have at least known the person. Nobody outside the great fiction work of the Bible ever knew, saw or recorded the Jesus character’s words let alone knew his mind.

  Jesus is the name labelling a religious saviour myth in the second century, having evolved over millennia from folk stories, not a real flesh and blood man. If you think he is please supply us with the evidence. You then make assumptions that spirituality is an important thing to have (why please?) and on top of that determine that there are false types of spirituality and true types, these ideas build assumptions on top of assumptions. Sorry to say but it is the mindset of one who has been bamboozled by the powerful lure of religious hope and of course we all sympathise with that.

  From what you have said, you are fresh out of the JW prison and that means you are in a time of readjustment before you get things sorted. As JWs we all took things for granted and were actually taught not to challenge authorities but outside that straightjacket the smart thing to do is to be a sceptic...don’t believe a thing without the evidence first. Challenge everything! Especially “spirituality”... a word as nebulous as candyfloss. Remember though, we are on your side.
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  113

  Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

  by Deltawave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

  been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

  however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

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  Half banana

  Deltawave, when a person realises TTATT (the truth about the truth) the JW mindset does not immediately evaporate. Even if you have discovered that JWs are just another religious cult this does not deny you might still be looking for some invisible spiritual anchor. The tendency of most ex-JWs is to look elsewhere for some “spiritual” comfort because that is what we were led to believe. Spirituality is just another term to describe the religious impulse.

  There are degrees of healing from the curse of having been immersed in the Watchtower scam and it truly does take some time to rewire the brain and get your life back.

  Our tendency is to justify religion by saying that “spirituality” is the alternative answer, as if we must hold on to something supernatural--- after all it had been our way of life to do so.

  Instead, to leave JWs is an opportunity to mature as an individual...we were all infantilised by the old cult... now we look after ourselves. This is the significant part; if we are to mature we cultivate the art of decision making on a pragmatic basis not an airy-fairy spiritual one. Spiritual is the word of the religious con man, indeed we are not just material we are also creatures of the mind. Mental play is a precious and vital human attribute, often distorted in religious belief. We enjoy our imagination and also the profoundly enjoyable art and culture that have arisen from it but we should not base our life decisions on unprovable edicts by great “spiritual” leaders. The lure of spirituality is strong but just look at the pits of despair and depravity the “spirituality” of Islam is forcing on people.

  We were Jdubs, we were wrong...we were wrong about everything. My suggestion is that this time round we should seek our own welfare and that of family and mankind through provable, evidential based knowledge not through the yearnings of magic spirituality. It takes time to escape and recover from the religious dream... but all the best to you on your life journey from here on, it does get better!
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  22

  How do JW's know that the bible is inspired?

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  asked a friend of mine this question the other day.

  here was his answer: "well, because paul said, 'all scripture is inspired of god...'".

  but seriously, that argument is like saying, "the bible is inspired because it says so!

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  Half banana

  Bro Jeramy, just to clarify ---when Paul wrote "All scripture is inspired..." he was not referring to the Bible for it did not exist then. Scripture in the first century meant ANY uplifting writings and no doubt he was meaning texts such as the then very popular Shepherd of Hermas which never mentions Jesus but looks to a 'lord' for hope and religious comfort.
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  36

  Something tells me 1914...

  by Monsieur in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  after todays watchtower lesson, and the lessons coming, something tells me bigger and bigger new understandings are coming.

  and that it will culminate with 1914. notice how jesus is now coming, and no longer already here.

  the current understanding is both, he is here and hes also coming.

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  Half banana

  Yes Finklestein, the Watchtower is a farce. Imagine how it is that the org arrives at biblical understanding: a committee of old timers gets together and determines what doctrines will be the most palatable under the prevailing circumstances and then proclaims that what they have decided it is "divine truth". How shallow... how corrupt... how foolish!

  If there was a God and the Watchtower really had divine truth they would never need to change the doctrines ever.
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  36

  Something tells me 1914...

  by Monsieur in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  after todays watchtower lesson, and the lessons coming, something tells me bigger and bigger new understandings are coming.

  and that it will culminate with 1914. notice how jesus is now coming, and no longer already here.

  the current understanding is both, he is here and hes also coming.

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  Half banana

  Monsieur, as a rule of thumb everything the Watchtower has ever said is meaningless, irrelevant or misleading. You suggest there are bigger things to come from them ...bigger lies and bigger irrelevancies.

  The 1914 doctrine as others have pointed, out has been the magic key to the success of the org. Not that they were right, they got the prediction quite wrong (1914 was originally to have been the latest date for entire restoration of the earthly paradise) but being in control of the information through their publications they always have--- and very much still do--- massage the ‘truth’ of what they say to gloss over their errors.

  I see the direction the WTBTS are aiming for is to be like the biggest Christ cult of all time; the Roman Catholic Church, which although now declining, has through its wealth and political connections been able to ride out every criticism on the basis of self appointed authority and propaganda. The WTBTS is nowhere near this ideal so they will continue to struggle for religious credibility.

  The JW authority was on the basis of getting 1914 right. This doctrine is becoming so old hat and chewed about that they will eventually try to claim divine backing without their sacred year...not an easy task! After all wrong calculations and wrong outcome over the year 1914 hardly make for evidence of divine attention.
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  16

  Types, anti-types, starting fresh?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do you think these changes are being made so they can start teaching the r&f a new set of doctrines?

  or is this just a fly in the ointment just to continue to confuses the masses so they don't know what the hell to think anymore?.

  and if you think its so they can teach new doctrines, do you think their going to go more main stream?.

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  Half banana

  And then the internet roles back the carpet...